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  #21  
Old 11-18-2005, 09:29 AM
Amaranth
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Originally Posted by agrios
with warriors being nothing more than meatshields.
What do you mean? That's all Warriors are right now, aggro inducing meatshields.

If GW wanted to do things right, they'd get rid of the entire concept of 'Classes' altogether. Just let people pick an appropriate mix of attributes and skills. Make 'metal' armor cause problems for spell casters, ala, reduced spell effectiveness, random backfire, random interrupt.
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  #22  
Old 11-18-2005, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Photics
MMORPG is a dirty word to many people. True, level grinding is bad. Monthly fees suck. Guild Wars doesn't have that. I'm totally cool with that. What I'm not cool with is the sense of immersion. The storyline doesn't move me. I don't feel like I'm in an epic struggle for the ascalonians. Except... EXCEPT... for pre-seering. When ArenaNet made level design more open-ended, the immersion felt better. Sorrow's Furnace is a bit like this as well... also a great area. Missions are not bad, but they feel too linear. Instancing is used too excessively.
Actually, I wouldn't mind having a few more levels to grind, at least it gives you a small sense of accomplishment. Right now, after you finish the story line there are only about 2 things to do in the game, Farming, Do it all again, and PvP. Farming gets dead boring, and where are you to sell the items you farm? Sit in Lion's Arch and whine on the trade channel all day? YAWN! As far as doing it all again, I've done it all again on 4 characters to full level 20/200's without running them, oh wait, I'm out of slots. PvP.....Well, PvP sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Photics
Linear maps + Stealth = easy win. That means ArenaNet has to get away from the "Follow the Yellow Dirt Road" syndrome. Stuff should blow up. Players should feel like they're fighting their way through a stronghold... or perhaps players should defend a stronghold. You know why Thunderhead Keep is such a hard mission for so many? It's because you actually have to think on that map. You can't just focus-fire and hope for the best. You have to watch troop movements, man the catapults, defend your borders... now that's what I'm talking about.
Yes, the areas as mazes thing needs to stop, heck, its fine when you're underground, it makes some sense in the mountains (have to follow the passes), but in the plains around Kryta? Being able to only climb up hills halfway is highly annoying, when you can see over it, and the slope doesn't get any steeper. I should be able to walk off a cliff and die if I want!
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  #23  
Old 11-18-2005, 10:02 AM
Amaranth
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Originally Posted by agrios
And warriors in GW can pack quite a punch, I remember using weaken armor+ executioner strike and hitting a monk for more than 100 dmg. And hammers are even more powerful. GW warriors are not only punchbags. Depending on build warriors can be good in offense and defense.
The ONLY thing Warrior characters have going for them is Armor. Their damage output isn't really that high (although its more consistant than a caster), and is fairly easily stopped, cast a slow spell on them or cripple them then walk away, as most Warriors don't bother to bring a useful ranged weapon with them (or have the attribute points to use it).
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  #24  
Old 11-18-2005, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrios
You talk this game?s storlyine doesnt compel you. But, thell me about a MMO who even got a storyline?
The storyline in MMORPGs are typically delivered through short movies, quests and NPCs. That's how you can judge the quality of the story. Do I feel like reading what an NPC has to say, or do I just blindly click through the text? Most outposts have a loremaster or a storyteller. Have you communicated with them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squire Zachery (Guild Wars NPC)
The original construction started in the year 898 AE. The first phase was complete nearly one hundred years later, but every king who has ruled Ascalon since has added to it. It's sort of a living structure, getting bigger and more massive with each passing monarch.

It was built to keep out the Charr, of course. The beasts from the north have plauged these lands for centuries. If we'd only known they had such powerful magic, maybe we would have been able to avert the Searing, and Ascalon would be whole and healthy today. But we didn't, and there is no sense in dwelling on what could have been, right?
How many of you have read that before? That's where I think Guild Wars has trouble. It's not the story as much as the delivery... and the fact that the story doesn't treat me a hero. "What call us is Victory", but can you really find any true victory in the game?

In PvP, you're one guild. That means one group in thousands can be a winner.

In PvE, you're on the run. The Charr kick your ass. The Dwarves kick your ass. The undead kick your ass. You get betrayed. You are basically a mess. Then, when all of this all comes to the finale, what happens? Heh... I won't ruin the story, but it really made me wonder what I was fighting for.

In MMORPGs that I had enjoyed, there was better storytelling. Earth & Beyond was probably the best example. It made me laugh. It made me wonder about the hidden details of the plot. In Guild Wars, the best part of the story can be summed up with one word - Gwen. Love her or hate her, at least she interacts with you. Plus, there is mystery there. Hopefully Chapter 2 continues on themes like this.

I think the biggest problem Guild Wars has is the interaction with the environment.

You can't jump
You don't run into random encounters
You get stopped by invisible walls

Plus, the strongest characters are not used to their full potential. Cynn, Devona and that lucky ranger dude who hangs out with them all the time... they should be more than just background noise for your party. The lore on the official site is heavily focused on these three characters. Yet... the game doesn't put the spotlight on them. I think the game would have benefitted from focusing on Cynn, Devona and Ranger Guy... instead of wasting so much time with Rurik. The prince is just a mess. He's ultimately a loser... a sad... sad... pathetic loser. Cynn, Devona, Mhenlo and Ranger Guy... those characters are winners. Not to mention, Cynn and Devona are easier on the eyes.

Quote:
About wars, have you ever tried Lineage 2? The sieges are everything you seem to like: Loads of players on fierce battles, defendind and invading.
I missed the boat for that game. I thought about starting a fansite when that game was released, but it was a time conflict with Guild Wars. I wasn't prepared to support two games, as I was just getting started with Guild Wars. Although, I love a lot of things about Lineage 2. I would get chills watching those movies.

http://www.lineage2.com/pds/pds_movie.html

The TGS 2003 - Gameplay Movie (10/03/2003) - that's an emotional video. Awwwh... the poor elf lady. And wow... Bill Brown's music is just awesome. It's stronger, more rich.

In the end, I chose Guild Wars. Why? I think there's more potential with Guild Wars. We're talking about little tweaks to make things better. ArenaNet now has the benefit of experience. They can see what works and what needs improvement with Chapter 1.

If you listen to Jeremy Soule's new music for Guild Wars, you can hear how his new stuff is better suited for Guild Wars. Plus, the developers have been responsive to the community. I was so happy on the day that ArenaNet introduced First Person Perspective into Guild Wars. It really improved immersion and it made taking screenshots a lot easier. I'd love to see ArenaNet add things like jumping... open areas... swimming... arts & crafts... a more robust feel about the world.

I'm not looking for more professions or more skills. I hope there's more to Chapter 2 than that. I'm looking for the gaming experience to improve...

- Better Guild Features
- More immersion
- Design Improvements
- More exciting PvP

Quote:
Some invisible dude that backstabs you 3 times in a row is not steatlthy, you actually KNOW hes there. I On this matter I hear a lot of about WoW Rogues BS.
I've played World of Warcraft. Rogues are not too much of a threat one-on-one. In the battlegrounds, they clean house. That's because you're distracted by the fog of war. While you're busy trying to capture a base, they can sneak right up behind you. That's how it should be.

I can't see how stealth would translate into tombs. Everyone knows to stick together, or you'll just get picked off. There is no reason for a team to spread out. There are only a few viable tactics to employ. In many other team based PvP games, one person can run off and make a difference. You can't really do that in Guild Wars. You can't solo the Guild Lord. You're not going to surprise many teams running a relic. You certainly cannot hold a Dias solo... unless you're playing against one really weak team. OK... so it's about teamwork, but too many players are just not in that mindset. I know I'm not. I know I don't want to micromange my skill set. I don't want to check who's bringing what. I just want to play.

I'm curious as to what ArenaNet is thinking. Are they happy with PvP? Ultimately, that's all that really matters. If ArenaNet still believes PvP is the way it should be, then one should not expect the system to change. HA HA. Yet, with the addition of stealth, it really does force a critical look at PvP. Is the game where it should be?
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  #25  
Old 11-19-2005, 06:48 PM
The Arpeggiator The Arpeggiator is offline
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Hmm, in short to remedy the problem of not making the player feel like a hero would be to have that library I was talking about.
In there, you could view the records of people who have reached the hall of heroes or have been awarded some medal or something for beating the game. Also for any guilds that have ever achieved a top 10 ranking.
I would go so far as to say that statues should be erected for great players...but there are way too many.

Perhaps to remedy that stealth in tombs problem, as well as level compatibility issues from the new chapter, there would be a second, more massive tournament held in the new place, or whatever. You see, that way ANet could also eliminate complaints about no RvR. Some super massive 8 team battles, with NPCs are not more enemies than you would encounter in your average mission--so there probably wouldn't be any engine issues. That way, you could give assassins a fair chance, too.
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  #26  
Old 12-16-2005, 08:16 AM
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I'd like to see a martial artist myself, with staves, throwing stars, and maybe a spell to turn invisible for a certain length of time. if they do have an assassin, Id like to see something like the thief skill in neverwinter nights, where you can sneak up behind someone and stab them in the back for a lot of damage. Backstab was what it was called, if I remember correctly.

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  #27  
Old 12-16-2005, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residentgood
Id like to see something like the thief skill in neverwinter nights, where you can sneak up behind someone and stab them in the back for a lot of damage. Backstab was what it was called, if I remember correctly.
I've played a Rogue in EverQuest and I play a rogue in World of Warcraft. Backstab rocks.

My concern is how would such a profession fit into Guild Wars? Guild Wars is the only game I can think of where hitting someone with a weapon can sometimes heal them. (Healing Seed, Healing Hands) Maybe getting the jump on players would eliminate the chance for Monks to use that ability. Yet... I just HATE how healing works in this game. Healing Seed / Healing Hands... it's a way to slow down focus fire attack. (Attacks where 8 guys attacks 1 player.) This waters down Melee... as there are many times when you simply cannot attack your target. What would the NIKA have to combat enchantments?

Poisons?
Backstab?
Dirty tricks?

Plus... how would stealth work in PvP? A lot of the matches are deathmatch. What's to stop players from simply hiding?

I really think the face of PvP needs to change. There needs to be GUILD WARS... where you fight for territory! Then, a stealthy class would make sense... as there's a frontline to sneak past. Let's not forget about how "running" players through maps undermines the gameplay. Could a NIKA simply stealth all the way to the end of a mission?

What would counter stealth... without making stealth useless?
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  #28  
Old 12-16-2005, 11:32 AM
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Ive never played the PVP part of GW. I think the ability to invade a guild hall, and turn it into a 2nd guild hall for the winning guild would be neat. Unless that is actually already done. Or you could be a guild with no guild hall, then invade a guild with one, and if you win, you get their guild hall and save 70k or however much it is...that would give a lot of reason to prepare defenses for your hall. Though maybe thats not such a good idea, because all the weak guilds would lose their halls, and therefore lose 70k too. I dont know... maybe all this stuff is going on already, or if not, then im sure there are reasons why it wouldnt work.

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  #29  
Old 12-16-2005, 11:34 AM
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i forgot about the stealth thing, i should have added to my last post here, but um... something to counter stealth... how about land mines? lol jk, but not really... though maybe i am... lol Imagine an assassin sneaking along, halfway to his/her destination, when all of a sudden, they step on a hidden mine... boom. there could be a land mine skill along with the traps or something... wait...would landmines be too technologically advanced?

What do you think?

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  #30  
Old 12-16-2005, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residentgood
would landmines be too technologically advanced?
In WoW, they call them traps... but they're a lot like landmines. :D

Rogues can see these traps and disarm them.
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